tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post6226466307129981928..comments2023-05-08T18:54:49.377+08:00Comments on IslaFormosa Blog: Still in the dark about the KMT win?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-69369862694886544582008-04-04T15:57:00.000+08:002008-04-04T15:57:00.000+08:00"the only problem I see is racial/ethnic animosity..."the only problem I see is racial/ethnic animosity (identity politics), and a lot of it comes from the DPP trying to fire up hatred between native Taiwanese and those who were mainlanders (aka IMMIGRANTS, 2nd generation immigrants and so on)."<BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more, though I see the problem as one that runs a bit deeper - it is not the only problem we have here regarding racial or ethnic animosity stirred up by the present government. President Chen has also been scapegoating other out-groups in Taiwan, see the continual raids on bushibans, obviously targeted at "foreign" teachers or his comments about Southeast Asians working in our country and the need for a culling of them. I dug up this comment on the Internet from years back: <BR/><BR/>""We [The Asia-Pacific Mission for Migrant Workers] are concerned by newspaper reports that President Chen Shui Bien of Taiwan has recently asked his Cabinet to study the possibility of stripping migrants working in factories and construction of their right to a minimum wage by expelling them from enjoying the rights stipulated in the Labor Standards Law."<BR/><BR/>Scapegoating "foreigners" for economic woes, real or perceived, is an extremely odious practice. It is or was what the Fascists/Nazis were all about.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-66865117130418416822008-03-28T14:22:00.000+08:002008-03-28T14:22:00.000+08:00Oh, and those who compared the experiences of Wais...Oh, and those who compared the experiences of Waishengren in the wake of the Chinese Civil War with the experiences of Hispanic immigrants in the US should take a crash course in power dynamics. The Chinese refugees came from the most elite backgrounds and endured favoritism from the government, while the vast majority of Hispanic immigrants are lower-class laborers and enjoy quite the opposite treatment from the government. Who's oppressing whom?B.BarNavihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07860632239759681393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-61099365700719600022008-03-28T14:18:00.000+08:002008-03-28T14:18:00.000+08:00To the credit of those who voted in the straw poll...To the credit of those who voted in the straw poll, that happened when Hsieh actually stood a reasonable chance of garnering votes. You reap what you sow, and if you sow a poor campaign...<BR/><BR/>The only real reason to have voted for Hsieh after the LY elections would be a fear of one-party rule. Sure, a Hsieh administration with a Blue LY would be as plagued with gridlock as the Chen administration was, but just look at the US here and see what wonders one-party rule has done for this country.<BR/><BR/>The issue at stake isn't even identity politics. Last time I checked, there was no tension between Hoklo, Hakka, Aborigines, and Waisheng peoples. Taiwanese identity (contra Chinese "Chung-hua" identity as espoused by the ROC) has been accelerating since ben-tu-hua, and the trend can't be reversed by anyone. Most of Taiwan wasn't even divided on the "sovereignty" issue, either. The majority were for UN participation, and they all want China to lay off. Corruption? Oh please - both sides have proven themselves to be as corrupt as each other.<BR/><BR/>No, I believe the main issue was the economy, and how Blue media could set facts aside and successfully blame Chen on all the troubles. The Greens were too powerless (or perhaps unwilling) to fight this, and no one should be surprised with the result. Now they've entrusted Xiao-Ma-Ge to fix things up. We'll see what his cockamamie "One China(!) market" free-trade policies can do to help Taiwan's economy (especially its workforce) in the face of a coming US-led depression.<BR/><BR/>Hand-wringers on both sides should really stop distracting us from the real issues.B.BarNavihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07860632239759681393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-12883418774846287702008-03-28T04:02:00.000+08:002008-03-28T04:02:00.000+08:00what is this "independence" you are all talking ab...what is this "independence" you are all talking about??<BR/><BR/>I am a native Taiwanese and I can assure you foreigners, Taiwan is NOT under the rule of China, we are NOT part of China, we have our own separate independent government.<BR/><BR/>the KMT may have consisted of mainly mainlanders who had plans to overcome the Communist Party of China and regain the country... but those people are dead. and I highly doubt <BR/><BR/>as for our rights as Taiwanese people - from what I have observed, we are doing just fine. for instance, we have not had issues with abortion, gay marriage, religious intervention in the government (well apart from Hsieh's own voodoo beliefs but he doesn't delve into it that much) or killing innocent people in the middle east... and I think that says a lot about our rights in general.<BR/><BR/>the only problem I see is racial/ethnic animosity (identity politics), and a lot of it comes from the DPP trying to fire up hatred between native Taiwanese and those who were mainlanders (aka IMMIGRANTS, 2nd generation immigrants and so on). that would be the equivalent questioning a Hispanic-American's identity/allegiance as an American because he/she was born in Mexico and not in the US.<BR/><BR/>as for the KMT sucking up to the CCP... I really don't see how different it is from how ANY OTHER government in the rest of the world (US and EU countries) act towards the CCP. they are all cooperating with the Chinese government. why? because China is in power, and as selfish beings/countries (aren't we all?), they all want to benefit from staying in a friendly, amicable relationship with China (aka to not piss them off).<BR/><BR/>as a Taiwanese person I would like Taiwan to be recognised myself, but there is a moderate way to achieving this goal, and I feel that the KMT is doing it. the DPP however I feel takes a more aggressive approach and as a result harms Taiwan's economic / social status in the long run.Yvonnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430045782892381112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-12943917404183361052008-03-28T00:08:00.000+08:002008-03-28T00:08:00.000+08:00Here is a few more thoughtsSingle-issue politician...Here is a few more thoughts<BR/><BR/>Single-issue politicians (identity politics, in this case) usually do not get elected, and "it's the economy, stupid."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-71609708914541387612008-03-27T06:29:00.000+08:002008-03-27T06:29:00.000+08:00"We are, according to all the Taiwanese politician..."We are, according to all the Taiwanese politicians, a peace loving country. But what I think is that we need nuclear weapons.<BR/>"<BR/><BR/>I can't imagine how the situation would be better if Taiwan's '87 nuclear program was never discovered and it progressed with, let's say, a successful nuclear test on an abandoned island in the Pacific.<BR/><BR/>I mean, it would reinforce China's case of the danger of Taiwan and probably prevent weapon sales by the US, especially missile related technology.<BR/><BR/>The only way I see it as a plus would be to use the nukes and the disarmament of them as a bargaining chip TO get better international support or defensive weaponry. But that would not help with Taiwan's relation with China definitely.Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05500133683222755268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-37684742965177867162008-03-26T15:46:00.000+08:002008-03-26T15:46:00.000+08:00This comment has been removed by the author.TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14709437695507018440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-24846156978679743182008-03-26T08:47:00.000+08:002008-03-26T08:47:00.000+08:00DPP needs a vision for the future and it needs to ...DPP needs a vision for the future and it needs to start thinking like a political party in a democracy rather than an insurgency group trying to take down a dictatorship. It needs to reach out to other groups and build a coalition that can defeat KMT's money politics. <BR/><BR/>That being said, I find it interesting that someone who self-identifies as "true blue" would lay the blame on identity politics solely on DPP. Sure, no body cares if you are 本省 or 外省 but that's not the core issue for identity politics in Taiwan today and haven't been since the mid 90s. The identity issue in Taiwan today is Taiwanese vs. Chinese (as in China, not 外省). If you love Taiwan (as you say... " 'they' are all Taiwanese now"), then how can you accept KMT's cooperation with CCP on election tactics and other issues? These are troubling and dangerous development to Taiwan's security and democracy and DPP is right to ask where Ma's allegiance lies. If KMT and Ma really care about Taiwan, why don't they change the name of their party to Taiwan Nationalist Party rather than going to Beijing to pay tribute to our oppressors?irwinchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09175879445715413526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-78517965753913395092008-03-25T17:34:00.000+08:002008-03-25T17:34:00.000+08:00[host: please disregard the earlier version of thi...[host: please disregard the earlier version of this comment and use this one]<BR/><BR/>I think l.l. nails it. I strongly disagree with MJ Klein. How can anyone say the KMT has <I>revoked</I> permission to practice democracy? They have just received two overwhelming mandates from the Taiwanese people in the LY and presidential elections. <BR/> <BR/>They fully realize that if they do not perform, they will be tossed out on their keesters, just like the DPP was. To suggest that the KMT will reinstitute authoritarian rule, is frankly, an insult to every Taiwanese who voted Saturday.<BR/> <BR/>I think a lot of foreigners, mainly the long-term expats, came over here in the late 1980s, early 1990s during the DPP movement years. Their mindsets remain locked in that period, and it clouds their judgment. One only has to read Turton, but more especially Jerome Keating, to see just how far out of touch with reality they are.<BR/> <BR/>They are not alone. The leadership of the DPP is as well: Its only issue is 本省 vs. 外省 identity. The simple fact is that the vast majority of voters under 50 years of age do not care about identity. It is a dead issue. They are all Taiwanese now. Nobody asks if parents/grandparents whatever are 外省. <BR/> <BR/>Until the DPP can move past this issue and modernize its message, it better get used to these thrashings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-25472789422004985202008-03-25T17:25:00.000+08:002008-03-25T17:25:00.000+08:00I think l.l. nails it. I couldn't disagree more w...I think l.l. nails it. I couldn't disagree more with MJ Klein. How can anyone say the KMT has <I>revoked</I> permission to practice democracy? They have just received two overwhelming mandates from the Taiwanese people in the LY and presidential elections. <BR/> <BR/>The KMT fully realizes that if it fails to perform, it will be tossed on its keester, just like the DPP was. To suggest that the KMT will re-institute authoritarian rule, is frankly, an insult to every Taiwanese who voted Saturday.<BR/> <BR/>I think a lot of foreigners, mainly the long-term expats, came over here in the late 1980s, early 1990s during the DPP movement years. Their mindsets remain locked in that period. One only has to read Turton, but more especially Jerome Keating, a verifiable loon, to see just how far out of touch with reality they are.<BR/> <BR/>They are not alone. The leadership of the DPP is as well: Its only issue is 本省 vs. 外省 identity. The simple fact is that the vast majority of voters under 50 years of age do not care about identity. It is a dead issue. They are all Taiwanese now. Nobody asks if parents/grandparents whatever are 外省. <BR/> <BR/>Until the DPP can move past this issue and modernize its message, it better get used to these thrashings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-65497495113367387292008-03-24T15:43:00.000+08:002008-03-24T15:43:00.000+08:00Well, I'm your reader as a Taiwanese in a foreign ...Well, I'm your reader as a Taiwanese in a foreign country, and I like your comments, at least for most parts.<BR/><BR/>But if you really thought the same way as a fellow Taiwanese knowing that a country like China waiting to assault you the moment you say the word independence, man, you ARE an idealist. We are, according to all the Taiwanese politicians, a peace loving country. But what I think is that we need nuclear weapons.<BR/><BR/>Besides, Taiwanese individuals do have every freedom as US citizens have WITHIN the countries. Which human rights do you think Taiwanese citizens missed? In my opinion, what we lack is the recognition from the international society, which I doubt how much the referendum would do to the foreign governments, even if they passed. Look at Kosovo, how much blood do we need to spill, and whether the spilled blood could earn us something? And it is always easier to spill others' blood.<BR/><BR/>Trust me, I know the importance to be independence for Taiwan. Right here in the US, I tasted the bitterness as a citizen of a "region" which is "an undetermined issue" (according to US government). As a foreigner like you are, a better way to support Taiwan is not through supporting DPP, but telling your government that Taiwan needs their recognition as a country.<BR/><BR/>I totally disagree with mj klein. KMT may be the historical evil side, but that's over 20 years ago. People in power are different, and like the system in US, our current system can be perfected over time. Would you say that George Washington was evil since he allowed slavery trade? Or all the US presidents before JFK and the political parties they belong to were evil since they allowed segregation? If you do, do you also expect them being static forever and would chase after them for "justice"?<BR/><BR/>Well, I would say that's history. We may be able to fix problems, but we cannot fix history. We need to live a current life, and solve problems in front of our eyes, not in the past.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-32172462034444124312008-03-24T14:58:00.000+08:002008-03-24T14:58:00.000+08:00I don't fear a KMT government either.I suspect tha...I don't fear a KMT government either.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that a lot of foreign and local Chicken Littles will be crying "The sky is falling!!!" in Taiwan for months.<BR/><BR/>Time will tell.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13010915808850506275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-3237490275089571252008-03-24T13:58:00.000+08:002008-03-24T13:58:00.000+08:00I would be interested to see some good survey data...I would be interested to see some good survey data on who foreigners in Taiwan tend to support. I guess it would show a pretty wide spectrum of beliefs, but I am not sure where the median would lie. It might be closer to the blue side than is commonly thought. <BR/><BR/>You seem to be very critical of the name changes carried out by the DPP. Perhaps if they had received more sympathetic media coverage then it would not have seemed so bad. Name rectification is a normal process in any country making a transition from authoritarianism. Apparently Taiwan is not normal in this respect though.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13061413827755873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-2268749634739673062008-03-24T13:52:00.000+08:002008-03-24T13:52:00.000+08:00An interesting commentary. I also sometimes wonder...An interesting commentary. I also sometimes wonder why foreign sympathies tend to be with the DPP. <BR/>I agree that things need to become less partisan and people of both leanings finding a large common ground to allow Taiwan to move forward. Hopefully a KMT dominated government will not stifle opposition in the way mj klein suggests. Personally I don't see that happening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-7796649809489397492008-03-24T12:41:00.000+08:002008-03-24T12:41:00.000+08:00Well it seems that you have subscribed to the Big ...Well it seems that you have subscribed to the Big Brother is Watching You theory. How does one go about <I>proving</I> what you claim?<BR/><BR/>BTW, on another point. Look at my informal poll taken about who people think will win the election. Considering that most of my readers are foreign, I think it's a fair indicator of what foreign sympathies are for...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13010915808850506275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26205275.post-10026645249768786892008-03-24T12:33:00.000+08:002008-03-24T12:33:00.000+08:00it's a lot simpler than that. by now it should be...it's a lot simpler than that. by now it should be obvious that <EM>the KMT controls everything</EM>. they've revoked permission to practice democracy. after all, no group or party <EM>took</EM> power from the KMT. this little experiment is concluded because it has fulfilled all requirements.MJ Kleinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16859263977094071677noreply@blogger.com